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Podcast Ep. 181: What Does a Scrum Master Do Outside of the Scrum Team Bubble? with Alba Uribe and Hal Hogue

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Episode Description

This week, Dan Neumann is joined by two colleagues, Alba Uribe and Hal Hogue. In this episode, they are discussing what a Scrum Master does outside of the Scrum Team bubble. They dive deep into the roles of a Scrum Master as a teacher, coach, facilitator, and also as an impediment remover. Listen to this thoughtful conversation and find meaningful examples and valuable and applicable suggestions to live the Agile principles and promote their right implementation throughout your organization.

Listen on Apple Podcasts

Key Takeaways

  • What does a Scrum Master do outside of the Scrum Team bubble?
    • A Scrum Master is an impediment remover. Hal shares an example of a Team that was just exhausted from the number of meetings they meant to attend.
    • The Scrum Master can help with external Teams that are dependent on services or any kind of other development. Teams can cooperate with each other. If there is dependency among Teams, what can be done to remove them? When dependencies are removed or minimized, Teams can be in control of their own destinies.
  • A Scrum Master teaches, coaches, and facilitates.
    • A Scrum Master must look for opportunities to teach and coach while having conversations with the people in the organization to find those teachable moments.
    • A Scrum Master must teach the Agile concepts at all levels as well as coach and mentor constantly. A Scrum Master has to show people the benefits of following Agile Principles and tell them how they can experience those benefits.
    • A Scrum Master must help employees and stakeholders understand and enact an empirical approach to complex work.
    • A Scrum Master can also support innovation and creativity.
    • Scrum Masters can work with other Scrum Masters in the organization and other coaches to make sure there is an alignment among them and also be aware of what each other is doing.
  • What can you do as a Scrum Master to find other people who are participating in the Scrum Journey with you? How can they be engaged?
    • Get out there, communicate and bounce ideas with others. Build that culture and get those allies together.
    • A Scrum Master can enable conversations with other departments.
    • A Scrum Master should be the management ally.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Start with Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action, by Simon Sinek

The Zombie Scrum Survival Guide, by Christiaan Verwijs, Johannes Schartau, and Barry Overeem

Coaching Agile Teams: A Companion for ScrumMasters, Agile Coaches, and Project Managers in Transition, by Lyssa Adkins

Transcript [This transcript is auto-generated and may not be completely accurate in its depiction of the English language or rules of grammar.]

Intro (00:03):

Welcome to agile coach corner by agile thought the podcast for practitioners and leaders seeking advice to refine the way they work band pave the path to better outcomes. Now here’s your host coach band agile expert. Dan Newman.

Dan Neumann (00:17):

Welcome to this episode of the agile coach’s corner podcast. I’m your host Dan Newman. Today. I’m excited to be joined by two guests, Alba EBA, and Hal hog, uh, colleagues here at agile thought. Alba, Hal, thanks for joining you today.

Alba Uribe (00:32):

Yeah, thank you for having us.

Hal Hogue (00:34):

Thank you, Dan. Good to be here. And I gotta say, I am so jealous of that chocolate cake you just had for breakfast. I,

Dan Neumann (00:41):

Yeah, all the coffee, anything goes wrong. It’s the coffee and the chocolate cake and, and so people get to enjoy, um, yeah, uh, sugary breakfast for me,

Hal Hogue (00:50):

Breakfast of champions,

Dan Neumann (00:52):

Indeed. Last episode, Hal. It was you and our colleague Mike Geer, and we talked about scrum masters and how they can serve kind of inside the scrum bubble. We are taking the frame. What does a scrum master actually do all day? Um, and we are planning to have Mike come back and do the episode related to outside of the scrum team bubble. What does a scrum master do all day and life happens? And so Mike’s not here today, he’s still alive, but Mike, wasn’t able to join for this recording and Alba. You are going to, um, add your amazing insights as to how, uh, a scrum master spends their day and, and kind of outside of the scrum team bubble. Um, so that’ll be our, that’ll be our conversation topic for today. And, um, I dunno how, uh, when you start to think of scrum master outside of the scrum team bubble, what are, what are maybe one of the things that that person maybe is doing as part of their day?

Hal Hogue (01:57):

Well, when I think about outside the bubble, I, I still go back to the various stances that a scrum master takes in general, within a scrum team bubble or outside of a scrum team bubble. And we talked about a few of those in the last episode. I think we talked about the stance of teacher, of coach, of facilitator. And I think all of those apply when in working more with the organization outside of the scrum team, but there’s, there’s a few others. And the one, well, one that I think is very important is that of an impediment remover. And I’m talking about organizational level impediments, uh, things that at interfere with the scrum team’s ability to be effective and truly embrace the scrum values even. Um, there, there are all sorts of things that could be kind of impeding the scrum team, not completely blocking them from doing their work, but slowing them down and, and affecting them.

Hal Hogue (03:13):

Uh, one thing that I actually ran into a while back is I had, uh, I was working with a scrum team and the developers were really frustrated with the amount of meetings that they were having. Uh, so they had the regular scrum events, which of course we have those, but they had a lot of other things as well. And it was, it was preventing them from, you know, accomplishing work, delivering value. And it was kind of souring them on the scrum events themselves because they were just complaining of too many meetings in general. And so as a scrum master, that’s where I see an opportunity to look the scrum team and figure out what’s going on. Like, is there some sort of organizational level impediment that’s causing this? And sure enough, after having some conversations, I discovered that the way management was currently working, they were requiring their direct reports, their developers to have daily, uh, daily standups basically.

Hal Hogue (04:30):

But these are, you know, the dark side of standups. These were plain old status reports that had nothing to do with the scrum team, but all of these people were required every day to meet with their manager and give a status update of what they accomplished in the previous day. And this told me that there’s gotta be a better way for the manager to get this information manager has a need, which we shouldn’t discount. Uh, they need to, they need to be affected at their own job, but there’s got to be a better way to go about that than having developers in yet another meeting repeating a lot of the same information and feeling a little bit, I don’t how micromanaged most likely. So this is an opportunity for the scrum master me to have a conversation with this manager and maybe take that teaching stance as well, and, and let them know, uh, a few other ways that they could get this visibility, this transparency that they’re looking for, maybe they could, would start, uh, attending these team sprint reviews. Uh, maybe we could show them some, some artifacts that the team is producing that might give the manager insight into what’s going on. It’s just, how can we leverage the things we’re already doing to make these other, uh, supplemental things less needed and maybe get rid of them entirely. So it’s a, it’s a little bit of a combination it’s impediment removement and it’s teaching the, it’s doing it outside of the scrum team with other members of the organization that are impacting the scrum team.

Dan Neumann (06:23):

Yeah. So, uh, Alba, are you also kind of seeing that as a significant investment of time for scrum masters as impediment removers at the organizational level and, and maybe what if you are, what would that look like to you?

Alba Uribe (06:36):

Yes, so totally agree with, uh, how I have found that same situation in organizations where they start the transformation, they add the transformation, but they keep the same meetings they have before. So they scrum master having, taking the time to understand the objective of those other meetings and combining, and perhaps I have mentioned having some kind of artifacts or combining those meetings or getting those, that information from the scrum events or from, uh, scrum of a scrums and then little by little then eliminating those other meetings that basically kind of are duplicates from the scrum events. And, yeah, so besides that, um, one of the things I also I have found is the scrum master can help with external teams that they are dependent on, on, uh, services being developed or any other kind of development that happens outside a scrum, uh, team. So just understanding and being like a link between those two teams and making sure that as things are coordinated in such a way that they help the teams development and they don’t slow down the, their progress.

Dan Neumann (08:09):

So in a, in a way that aspect of scrum mastery of kind of causing the removal of impediments, um, and in this case, how it sounds like you’re describing those of teams that are extra Arnold, maybe there’s a dependency. Maybe they’re not a team that’s practicing agile methods necessarily, maybe for very good reasons. They’re not, but is, is that in line with what you’re thinking?

Alba Uribe (08:29):

Yeah, that’s what I, exactly what I was thinking. And as organizations, uh, in, in embarking the journey of the transformation, uh, usually done, uh, you know, in increments. So you might have an area that is doing the agile transformation, but other ones that are external are still doing the traditional way of methodology of, of, uh, doing projects. So how do we, uh, link those two? So it, it doesn’t slow down. The, the people that are doing this scrum adoption. And so the scrum master is a link works with other O other teams coordinating and making sure that there are conversations between those two team or among the who, you know, how many teams are, uh, interacting with a scrum team.

Hal Hogue (09:21):

Yeah. And when it comes to dependencies, I think scrum masters can also start asking the question, can we, or what can be done to potentially remove this dependency? Uh, because ultimately we want to minimize dependencies. Mm-hmm <affirmative> as much as we can, so that teams can be in control of their own destiny. And that means reaching outside of the team and having converse with leadership and, and, and, and the people who make, who really make the decisions on, on our overall structure and figure out if there is something we can do to, to minimize, uh, all of these dependencies, if we, if we have a lot and if they are, are really impeding the team.

Alba Uribe (10:21):

Yeah. And, and showing metrics, showing metrics on how the team is, how much time is taking for the teams to have these depend external dependencies versus having it internally, like how much, um, efficiency they will gain, if that particular, uh, function, uh, skill will be within the, the scrum team, which is basically the mm-hmm <affirmative> the scrum concept is to have not dependencies that the teams are, um, have all the, the things they need within the team and not accept, or, but the reality is their organizations, especially when they are starting with the, uh, agile transformations, is that they, they have this type of configuration.

Hal Hogue (11:09):

Yeah. Mm-hmm

Dan Neumann (11:09):

<affirmative>. And what you’re talking about, elbow sounds, you know, straight out of the scrum guide planning and advising scrum implementations within the org, one way to advise on scrum implement would be to highlight if we leveraged the scrum framework effectively, here are a bunch of time wasters really, that could be eliminated here is how transparency could eliminate meetings for status. Here’s what you gained by actually leveraging the scrum framework, not just bolting it on in to all the other stuff you’ve already done, and that can take a tremendous amount of time. And it, and it’s not, we’re gonna spend the next 40 hours on this. It’s an investment over time, repeatedly and slowly chipping away at some of those impediments,

Alba Uribe (11:57):

Correct. Or, or you start like, uh, in, in a previous job that I had, what we did, uh, the API dependency, what we did with that team is that we brought the API developer into the scrum team, doing the, the, the development was needed. So the person will be like a member of the scrum team. Of course it’s not ideal, but it’s one step that gets you closer to what, where we wanna get to total, uh, independent scrum teams.

Dan Neumann (12:28):

Yeah. Kind of, uh, working with the organization on the structure and, and yeah, not ideal the have team members floating in and out, but it might be the best thing we can do at the moment. And so we do that. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, and then you can inspect and adapt and go forward from there. Hal, you mentioned teaching coaching facilitating as three of the facets we touched on in service inside the bubble. And I was wondering if maybe you could elaborate on the use of time for those teaching coaching and, uh, facilitating kind of outside the bubble. What might that look like either formally or informally that a scrum master spending their day on

Hal Hogue (13:07):

Yeah. Those, when it comes to those stances, they, they all obviously apply inside and, and outside the team, uh, the stance of teaching can obviously be done at an organizational level. We can, um, get together with leadership and, um, and just, it really, it really depends on, on the situation when it comes to, when it comes to teaching things and looking for opportunities. I think really, we just need to have our, have our eyes open in a way that is not completely focused on just the team and teaching the team and coaching the team and facilitating for the team. It’s looking for those opportunities on the outside, having those conversations with individuals in the organization and, and looking for those, those teachable moments. Uh, for example, uh, one, one area to maybe focus on is, uh, first of all, identifying who your stakeholders are with the scrum team and you, we should be working with the product owner on that, ensuring that, first of all, we know who they are, but second of all, it’s important that stakeholders understand the part they have to play in product development and how they should be interacting with the scrum team.

Hal Hogue (14:49):

And that’s, those are very teachable moments. Those are opportunities to get with the stakeholders and teach them things, uh, like empirical process control and how that works, teach them about the value of transparency and the need for frequent inspection and adaptation. It it’s, it’s all, it’s all about making decisions based on what we know and what we learned. It’s, it’s, it’s inspecting things and adapting and, uh, teaching them that a great opportunity to do that is in a sprint review. I have been to so many sprint reviews that have just been the scrum team and they just go in there and they’re, they go in there defeated, cuz they’re like, what, what are we doing here? We know what we’ve done. At least they should, hopefully it doesn’t turn into a Hey product owner. Here’s what we’ve done in the last mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, two or three weeks, uh, cuz that shouldn’t be the case. We, the stakeholders should be aware that first of all, this is happening. And second of all, what the purpose is and how valuable it is for them to be there. So a after reaching out and, and teaching these stakeholders, the value of the sprint review and getting them present and having that collaborative feedback filled opportunity, I think is, is very key. And that’s, that’s a great way to, to take that, that teaching stance at least.

Dan Neumann (16:33):

And so I think what you’re talking about probably has a flavor of both formal training, you know, as part of an agile adoption or a scrum adoption there there’s maybe some formal training, whether it’s through one of the certifying bodies, agile thought align with scrum dot orgs training. Uh, but then it’s the constant, uh, micro-teaching whether it’s within a session, but especially outside kind of building the relationships with those stakeholders so that they understand their role and, and Elba, I’m kind of curious, um, how you’ve seen, um, these stances of manifest themselves, teaching, coaching, facilitating of the org as well.

Alba Uribe (17:11):

Yeah, the, the, sure. So teaching of of course, uh, teaching the agile concepts at all levels, including executives and managers, but then coaching and mentoring, uh, constantly because repetition is something that, uh, we have to do in order for the knowledge to sink in and, and experience show them the, and also how they can experience the benefit. For example, uh, story mapping or agile road mapping are some of the techniques that I teach outside the scrum team within the scrum team, of course, but also outside that bring a lot of benefits to the organization, uh, teacher estimates. So, um, estimating your roadmap, knowing when things will, um, uh, end or will be ready identifying ahead of time impediments at the, uh, roadmap level. So teaching those, uh, techniques and the, and then people seeing the benefit of doing that on a more agile way, instead of spending a lot of time coming up with it’s like our estimates that take forever. So doing teacher estimates and coming up with a timeline, that’s, that’s something that I, I have done, uh, outside the scrum teams. And I think it’s very beneficial for, um, for the organization budgeting. It’s another thing by doing teacher estimates, you know, the cost of your scrum team, you can do estimates that way and then therefore having your budget identified

Speaker 1 (19:02):

Have a topic you want us to tackle, send an email to podcast@agilethought.com or tweet it with a hashtag agile thought podcast.

Dan Neumann (19:13):

Yeah. Kind of lifting some terms out of the scrum guide that apply to what I think you’re describing, you know, that helping the employees and stakeholders understand and enact an empirical approach for complex work, we could do hours based estimates in scrum, guess what? There’s still estimates and there’s still wrong. So a t-shirt side might be good enough. Uh, we aren’t going to know everything no matter how much time we sit and think and think and think right, if it did, that’s what waterfall waterfall, would’ve been amazing if we could actually come up with the perfect plan and scrum should embrace that. So how do you build support with stakeholders for, we think it’s about this big and as we uncover and learn, we’re going to have to make decisions. So how do we make those quickly and effectively make an appropriate decision for the time? Maybe not the perfect decision forever, but Hey, based on where we are now and what we know, this is a reasonable decision, let’s go down this path. A and, um, that’s hard and a kind of a constant reinforcement with, with people outside the team. Here’s what we’re doing. And here’s why, no, you can’t have the perfect plan for the next 12 months. It’s impossible. So what do we do?

Alba Uribe (20:25):

Exactly. Yeah. And, and there is having that concept of usually organizations wanna do yearly planning. So can instead, can we do quarterly planning? Can we also have some OKRs that’s a different, uh, you know, story, but, uh, teaching those concepts that are gonna help organizations be more effective and also support more innovation and creativity and, and therefore, uh, you know, getting potentially more return on investments. That’s those are the concepts that, that I think as scrum master is able to teach outside the scrum teams.

Hal Hogue (21:10):

Yeah. It’s like, let’s, let’s identify all of the feedback loops we have throughout the organization. And let’s see where we might be able to tighten those Alba. Just like you said, yearly planning. Oh, let, what if, what if we tried something like, like quarterly planning and, and had a, you know, a single significant objective using a OKRs or whatever, let’s, let’s explore that. And let’s introduce, uh, different, different ways of, of doing things and introduce them as experiments and coach on that experi, uh, mindset, you know, let’s, let’s try some things and see how they work. We’re not going to be married to, to a, a thing that we try out. If it doesn’t end up working, it just means that we learn something and we’ll move on to something else. And that’s, that’s kind of a, I don’t know, a, a cultural shift, I guess, that, that scrum masters can help with an organizational level.

Hal Hogue (22:10):

And we can also work together with other scrum masters in the org and other coaches to, to make sure that we are aligned on these things and, and moving toward these kind of shifts and, and being aware of what each other is doing. Like Dan, you and I are working together, uh, a little bit starting to, and it’s great having that support, uh, in, in other that scrum master coaching support in other parts of the organization, it’s, it’s very difficult to do this job a alone and, and having others to, to work with and, and, and bounce ideas off of is very valuable. And we should be spending a lot of our time throughout the day, doing that. Like what does a scrum master do all day? Well, one thing we do is work with other scrum masters.

Dan Neumann (23:07):

Hmm. That’s a good point. Um, lots of good points here, but the one that I latched onto there is fostering that community of scrum masters. Uh, and, and, you know, some folks who might be listening are in small organizations where there aren’t 3, 4, 10, 50 scrum masters, you know, depending on the scale you’re operating at. So what can you do within your organization to find other people who will still participate in the scrum journey with you and how do you engage them and bring them along? Um, cuz even in a small company without a, a big community of practice, it’s still valuable to find a way to have these conversations about bringing the journey of, of scrum adoption, you know, to a higher level of maturity.

Hal Hogue (23:54):

Yeah. I think just get out there and observe, and I identify some potential allies. Some people who really show an interest in what we are doing and, and maybe they enjoy talking about it. Maybe they’re very receptive to the, the things that we as scrum masters are communicating. Let’s leverage that let’s start working with those people that you don’t have to be scrum master or an agile coach to, to be, to be a part of this, to embrace these stances and work together. So if, if you are a scrum master, a quote alone in an organization, uh, try to try to change that and find some ally out there outside of the team and start getting together and having conversations, you know, communities of practice are very valuable. At least they have been in my experience. I love getting out there and just bouncing ideas off people, whether they’re, you know, official scrum masters or not, let’s just get, start building that culture and, and, and getting those allies together.

Alba Uribe (25:12):

Yeah. Another thing that I I’m thinking, uh, also is scrum master is doing outside. The scrum team is helping with, I mean, again, removal impediments, but, um, I find that usually the infrastructure of the organization I’m talking about like, uh, the technical infrastructure, uh, usually is not supportive of the agile concepts. So C I C D pipelines continuous, you know, in continuously to production and when things are ready and releasing throughout the day, instead of the evening releases. So helping the managers of the technic managers understand those concepts and how they can build a roadmap, so that can help, uh, the teams and therefore help the organization.

Dan Neumann (26:10):

Yeah. Reaching out to those specialists, the scrum master doesn’t have to be the expert and would not be the typically in C I C D and, and different strategies for resilient deployments and, and, and things like that. But, um, ha enabling conversations about what if we were to take a step towards CIC C D what if we were to start shifting the testing left, what would it look like to not have big formal gates to go through? How could we automate the validation mm-hmm <affirmative> and so just constantly again, chipping away at those organizational impediments.

Alba Uribe (26:45):

Yeah. And do it in, in an incremental way.

Dan Neumann (26:48):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>, that’s crazy. That’ll never work those increments. No, of course. Yes, absolutely. I’ll

Alba Uribe (26:54):

<laugh>

Hal Hogue (26:55):

Yeah. Get out there, get out there and plant those seeds, but don’t expect them to imagine and quickly grow into these giant successful things. It takes time, you also can’t plant a seed and then reach into the ground and like force it up to force it to grow. You can, you can plant it, you can kind of, uh, foster it. You can help it along, but

Alba Uribe (27:20):

I,

Hal Hogue (27:21):

We can’t rush it. You can walk. Yes.

Alba Uribe (27:25):

And, and see it grow <laugh>.

Dan Neumann (27:27):

Yeah. Right. Watch it grow. And, and, uh, it’s springtime in the upper Midwest where I live here of the United States and, uh, it’s allergy season. And it makes me think, as things start to grow, organizations may have an allergic reaction too. What’s happening as well. Cause managers are being asked to take a different stance. Somebody’s uh, I was at a place embracing scrums somebody’s job was literally to gather the build every month. So their job changed dramatically when it went to more agile methods that didn’t require a human to go around and collect the code and make sure all the pieces fit together. So, um, dealing with allergic reactions in the organization is also a scrum master, uh, activity that, that takes some time. Yeah. So I wanna, uh, maybe ask for a couple closing thoughts or a closing thought here, um, and maybe how you wanna lead us off.

Hal Hogue (28:23):

Well, just to, just to play off on your point about management, I think when we’re, when we’re talking about what we’re doing all day, and when we’re talking about outside of the scrum team, I think working with working with management is critical and the way we approach it is also critical. We, we want to, we want to be allies with management and to do that, we need to work with them to understand what their needs are and not, you know, jump to conclusions and try to force them to stop doing something or do something differently. You like the story I told earlier about the manager, having the daily meeting, that is something that they feel they need to do in order to meet a need that they have in order to do their job. And that is totally reasonable. But as a scrum master, we can start having those conversations and, and explore our options and help them maybe see other ways to, to tackle that. But we shouldn’t, we shouldn’t be making, we shouldn’t be making enemies out there. We should be making, making allies and working together so that, you know, all of our needs are met and, and we’re all able to be effective in the, in the long run

Alba Uribe (29:50):

Totally. And explaining why, like, why, uh, these changes need to happen. And one of the things that, of course, you, you teach you coach, you mentor the teams, but if you don’t do that outside of the scrum team, you might find that the, those behaviors of those activities that are happening outside the team are impediments for the team. So therefore is very important to look outside, beyond the scrum team and help them with all those, um, impediments or, uh, things that are happening that are blocking the team and also creating relationships. Like you mentioned, how with the managers, with everyone that is, uh, influencing the, the, the scrum teams.

Dan Neumann (30:44):

Yeah, absolutely. So Hal, thank you for that. And then the, the yes. And, uh, as well, Al, so Al your, your closing thought for our session today.

Alba Uribe (30:54):

Yeah. My closing thoughts are regarding, uh, teaching outside the scrum teams or beyond the ball, the scrum values and principle, the agile principles and the mindset. So the external, uh, teams or external entities can support the scrum teams.

Dan Neumann (31:18):

Yeah, for sure. Like getting that external support, uh, scrum teams are only going to be able to do so much within their bubble. And then you quickly will start bumping into those things outside the organization or outside of the, the scrum team bubble. For sure. Well, I wanna appreciate, uh, Alba and Hal, you taking some time to share some of the ways a scrum master will spend their day, uh, with facets of their role outside of a scrum team bubble. So thank you very much. Pleasure. I’m curious, what’s been on your continuous learning journey, um, Alba, anything exciting on your continuous learning journey these days?

Alba Uribe (31:57):

Yes. I’m rereading. I start with why, uh, from Simon Sinai. So I’m gonna start, uh, rereading, I already read that, but I think it’s a book worth, uh, reading it again. So I’m doing that. I’m gonna start doing that this week.

Dan Neumann (32:14):

Excellent. Yeah. And, and super valuable then for scrum masters to remember is like, why are we doing X, Y, Z? Why the change? Why the product? Why, why, why? For sure.

Alba Uribe (32:23):

Yeah. How to support innovation. Mm-hmm <affirmative>

Dan Neumann (32:27):

Wait. Yeah, for sure. Sorry, but I stepped on you there. Mm-hmm <affirmative> Al what about you

Hal Hogue (32:31):

Alba? You, can you hold me accountable for reading that book? Because every time somebody mentions start with why I’m like, I, I need to read that book. Why haven’t I read that book? And then I don’t so Alba you, like, I will make me read it please. I will to <laugh>, but, uh, actually I have two, but I’ll go quick. Uh, the first one is the, the zombie scrum survival guide. I mentioned I was going to start it in the last episode I did. I did start it. It’s interesting. So far, I love the overall, uh, metaphor of, you know, you’ve got, you’ve got scrum. You, you got, you’ve got these, these people who from afar, they, they look, they look pretty much like people, but you look a little more closely and they’re, they’re just sham blame along. And they’re, they’re not, they, they don’t have a beating heart.

Hal Hogue (33:26):

They’re just going through the motions. And that’s kind of what, uh, scrum can be like, if you don’t embrace the, you know, the values and the theory behind scrum. And that’s what the book is getting into. It’s very interesting so far. And the other one is, uh, I’m catching up a bit on coaching agile teams by Lisa Atkins. Uh, I know it gets mentioned all the time. Uh, I’ve read it before I’m reading it again because we’re, we have a little book club going on here and I was asked to facilitate the night session tomorrow. So going to be doing that excited about it, excited to talk about some of the concepts in that book again. So those are my two

Dan Neumann (34:09):

Nice. And I like, you know, with the, the group of coaches inside agile thought, going on a continuous learning journey, you know, together rotating the scrum ex rotating, rotating the facilitator role for that, it, it is not a scrum book club per se. We are, we, we do not have a sprint and et cetera, et cetera, but yes, it’s still a, a journey we’re all going on together. So I will, uh, look forward to, to that.

Hal Hogue (34:34):

And, uh, and shout out to Lucy, our own Lucy for setting that up and making it a success.

Dan Neumann (34:40):

Absolutely. Yes. The catalyst for change, which again, would be a thing that a scrum master will spend their day doing as well. So with that, uh, Hal Alba, thank you very much for taking some time to join the agile coaches corner podcast. Thank

Hal Hogue (34:53):

You then. Thanks Dan.

Outro (34:55):

This has been the agile coach’s corner podcast brought to you by agile thought. The views, opinions and information expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and the guests, and do not necessarily represent those of agile thought. Get the show notes and other helpful tips for this episode and other episodes@agilethought.com slash podcast.

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  • “A Scrum Master works as an impediment remover.” — Hal Hogue
  • “A Scrum Master must teach the Agile concepts at all levels, as well as coach and mentor constantly.” — Alba Uribe
  • “A Scrum Master wants to be allies with management and for that, he needs to know what their needs are, before assuming or trying to force them to do something differently. ” — Hal Hogue

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